Curse

Grasping Darkness · Dec 10, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

idk man . you seem to be like a motivational speaker profiteer saying things that seem peachy and mean something but they dont. and you contradict yourself some so i read like the first half and became to be in a state if wtf and thought to myself...maybe this person needs to let anet run they bidness and you run yo bidness and ....well who's millionares and whos flaming their opinion on a webite?

aron searle · Dec 10, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

No lol, I like guild wars.

But bored players, like me, want new content.

For this to happen, a monthly fee pretty much has happen. I don't want to pay money lol. But i am willing to pay money to improve this game I love.

New chapters aren't new content imo, it is just different scenery. The people here against my idea are not bored, obviously. That is cool, I was not bored about 3 months ago either. Again, please guys read everything before you post. This idea isn't as linear as you think, if you have an idea how it can become better go right ahead. Hell, if you think that this chapter production over and over again is a recipe for success, you can do that. I just think with the maps available in Guild Wars, and the quests and options it has, this direction I proposed is the way to go.

and yet again you fail to explain why you HAVE to have monthly fees to improve it

korcan · Dec 10, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

i remember it fondly, the first conversation i had with her we clicked almost immediately. the more time we spent together the more i fell in love with her. words cant describe the happiness and joy i felt when i was with her. nothing was going to seperate us...

as time went by, i thought the impossible was happening. feelings of familiarity, comfort, stagnation started to creep into my thoughts. what was happening? how could i fix this?

we tried everything to rekindle that magic we felt when we first met. nothing seemed to work. after exhausting all options, we decided to move on with our lifes in different directions.

the end.

Does-it-Matter · Dec 10, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Ok, for the math inept, ill put it this way (of monthly fee calculations).

New chapter =50-70 dollars (depending on CE or not)

For monthly fee=10 dollars per month

Both average to 60 dollars over a 6 month period, but with this new content I can safely predict MUCH MORE players will stick around, therfor making GW more profitable for Anet.

I don't get this, if your paying the same amount why does it matter if it is at once or over a period of time?

Math inept huh? Alright... First of all, let's go to the realm of being exact.

You can't include the range for the new chapter, unless you are going to allow a range for the monthly fee as well. The reason there is a range is because we get non-game-specific items. My Varesh 3-D poster thingy, my maps and all the other little trinkets that came with my CE did not affect the actual game itself (one could argue that the music at least affects it in some way, but that's more semantics.)

Unless the fee includes physical items, added music or what not, go with the base price for the chapters.

Let's also adjust your monthly fee to keep it the same, so roughly $8.33 a month.

Now, in that one year, both ways, we're spending roughly $100

Unless you are suggesting we pay a monthly fee AND buy bi-yearly chapters, how is ANet making any difference in revenue?

It's either they get the money all at once and then don't care so much if you stop playing after three months, or they get the money MAYBE if you play the whole six months.

If you are suggesting a monthly fee and chapter costs... there's no way I'm paying $200 bucks a year for one game.

How is ANet going to do more with the same OR LESS money on a yearly basis?

---

If they went with the "some pay monthly, some don't" suggestion you were giving before, it couldn't produce anything that would have an effect on gameplay. Remember ANet's basis of everyone is equal regardless of time or other factors, it's only skill. Giving a gameplay benefit to those who pay for a monthly fee (in addition to chapters?) only would create a gap.

Also, since titles are part of the current free service, would you then require persons wanting to get the full cartographer titles to pay a monthly fee?

So, essentially, if you wanted to maintain the above values as "Free," what are you left with? The equivilent of putting sparkles, fireworks, or a new coat of wax on something to catch your attention, but ultimately... nothing new.

---

I, and many whom replied above, value Guild Wars as a Free-to-Play game. I like the ability not to have to play at some level just to feel I'm getting my money out of it. I enjoy being able to step away and come back later (usually never do that, unless of the course the military has something to say about it...) without worrying if my account is inactive, or paying when I'm not playing.

I get the same value of the game if I play it for a day, or two years.

---

Boredom is inherent to anything. Every person has a varied level of attention spans, what holds mine may not hold yours. What I value, you may not.

Look how many persons beat the game in the first weekend vs. how many haven't beat it after a month.

Look how many threads appeared within the first week of "I'm bored already" both for Factions and Nightfall. Then look at how many people still are playing the game and enjoying it.

For an example, I started playing Tachyon: The Fringe (it's a space combat game) again after a long break. When I first started playing online (it has both online and offline content) you could easily get into games involving 20+ persons. As of last week the total amount of games added up to ONE and there were four people, myself included.

Interest waxes and wanes.

Prophecies has been out for over a year, Factions is even getting "old." The online community in Guild Wars is like a Wave, you will find the largest amount pushing along similar lines in a certain area, with smaller amounts surrounding it. Occasionally when new players buy an old chapter you get more persons in some areas.

If ANet started adding new content to old areas, one would indeed see an increase in players there, as the wave would head that way. But how long til that got old, and a new place was needed?

How many updates, how much would ANet have to poke and prod to the original chapters until they didn't even resemble what they first were, to hold player interest?

What ANet is doing right now with their business model is, imo, the best they can do for their game content and layout.

Release a chapter, the wave purchases said chapter and playes it. Depending upon difficulty, value of replay and rewards, the wave progresses either slowly or quickly through the game.

New chapter, the wave pays out, and starts out again.

The chapters are spaced to when roughly the largest block of Guild Wars players has put one character through the game and/or starts to wane in interest.

This way, ANet gets their income regardless of how quick you lose interest, or how often you play.

Loviatar · Dec 10, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

No lol, I like guild wars.

But bored players, like me, want new content.

For this to happen, a monthly fee pretty much has happen. I don't want to pay money lol. But i am willing to pay money to improve this game I love.

New chapters aren't new content imo, it is just different scenery. .

are you saying stop making new chapters and revamp the old chapters with new quests?

if so you are saying new quests in new scenery are not new content .....

but putting the same new quests into the old tired chapter IS new content.

i personally would rather have new quests in new scenery to explore.

if you are speaking of a 2 tier game content with some people having extra content the game engine wont support it and the playerbase would for the most pare ragequit.

i think ANET/NCSoft have a better grasp of the finincial end than a small *vocal minority*

lacasner · Dec 10, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Ok, well how would you guys go about adding new content to older chapters and making them lively again? Do you think this current product model of installing new and new chapters will remain the same forever?

I just put a possible solution. A monthly fee gives incentive for ArenaNet to expand on content on previous chapters. Geez, I mean I knew I was going into dark territory with this suggestion, but I wasn't quite expecting EVERYONE to be against me. I still don't think its that bad of an idea.

Does-it-Matter · Dec 10, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

A monthly fee gives incentive for ArenaNet to expand on content on previous chapters. Geez, I mean I knew I was going into dark territory with this suggestion, but I wasn't quite expecting EVERYONE to be against me. I still don't think its that bad of an idea.

See the thing is, you still haven't explained how changing the time interval in which ANet gets their money will change how they design the game. Same money but slower, to me, doesn't seem to say "let's do more work."

lacasner · Dec 10, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Hmm..ok. Well, I did state that their would be more people playing over a larger period of time, because there was like a big thread on bored players here and I feel much uncertainty about the next chapter sales ( maybe others don't but I just feel a ceartain sense about it). If more people play, there are more profits, and Anet doesn't have to worry about new expansion sales until they squeeze out every bit of potential out of all three continents.

aron searle · Dec 10, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Ok, well how would you guys go about adding new content to older chapters and making them lively again?

I wouldnt.

Why try to refresh old stuff, when you could concentrate on making something new.

Quote:

Do you think this current product model of installing new and new chapters will remain the same forever?

Forever is a long time

its been around nearly 2 years, if it makes it to 5 hell, even 3 or 4, i would call it a sucsess.

Also exactly what is the issue, you seem to think that people abandoning old chapters for new is bad?

Quote:

I just put a possible solution. A monthly fee gives incentive for ArenaNet to expand on content on previous chapters.

Youve put a solution foward for what many dont see as a problem anyway.

A monthly fee just gives incentive for people to play other games. Lets be honest, ive played guild wars, i havnt played some other p2p games, if i had to play for guild wars i would quit for 2 reasons

1. guild wars should be free as advertised
2. if im going to pay for something to recive new content, then i may as well just pay to play a game i havnt tried

Quote:

Hmm..ok. Well, I did state that their would be more people playing over a larger period of time

Yes, you did state this, numerous times, but at no point proved it.

What logic are you using to come to the conclusion that monthly fee = more people playing.

Quote:

because there was like a big thread on bored players here and I feel much uncertainty about the next chapter sales

If anet add chapters that are dull and un-innovative (for arguments sake), that has nothing to do with monthly fees.

Quote:

( maybe others don't but I just feel a ceartain sense about it). If more people play, there are more profits, and Anet doesn't have to worry about new expansion sales until they squeeze out every bit of potential out of all three continents.

Oh cmon this is just getting old, you just keep repeating and repating monthly fee = more content and people playing, but never back it up with anything, i know ill play your game.

lacasner · Dec 10, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Imo, I think with the landscape areas, Anet can make YEARS of entertainment just out of even CANTHA. I'm sorry if I left some unclear things in my OP, I wanted some people here to discuss what Anet could do with such potential of a monthly fee.

lacasner · Dec 10, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Youve put a solution foward for what many dont see as a problem anyway.

A monthly fee just gives incentive for people to play other games. Lets be honest, ive played guild wars, i havnt played some other p2p games, if i had to play for guild wars i would quit for 2 reasons

Aron, your right about that, but there are also many other players who do see a lot of problems.

A monthly fee does maybe discourage some players, but again it could be optional (in the sense that it would not affect core gameplay or the balance of the game, but give fun minigames or events.) So, people could still do their missions while others could play for instance a bounty hunter game (I think suggested in sardelac) all over Tyria and for instance and get titles for it. I want you guys to expand on the original thought though of what this could bring to the Guild Wars Table.

gamecube187 · Dec 10, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Ok, well how would you guys go about adding new content to older chapters and making them lively again? Do you think this current product model of installing new and new chapters will remain the same forever?

I just put a possible solution. A monthly fee gives incentive for ArenaNet to expand on content on previous chapters. Geez, I mean I knew I was going into dark territory with this suggestion, but I wasn't quite expecting EVERYONE to be against me. I still don't think its that bad of an idea.

I'm not completely against you. I would also like to have new things in old chapters, but I don't think it's worth it if we end up paying monthly. And if we end up paying monthly, but don't have to buy the games, then that doesn't really change anything from how it is now(besides making players quit) If there is a better way, that doesn't involve monthly fees, then I might agree.

lacasner · Dec 10, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Trust me..I thought about for a long time, and I advocated in many threads for Anet to do it gamecube187. But once I looked at it from their perspective instead my own ignorant one, I realized this is probably the only way it will work.

aron searle · Dec 10, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Discussion with you is pointless when you just ignore most of what people say, dont have any counters, and rubbish your own points.

Dalimoor_Kalkire · Dec 10, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

I don't know any facts of figures here, but is money the reason for lack of "upgrades". Maybe, the idea of a free MMO is rare. I think the reason so many people are against it is because they are so use to not paying, and alot of people don't believe in paying for a game, then paying monthly just to play it as evident from all the negative feedback.

I'm more neutral on the subject. If it turned around the game with the extra revenue, I might be willing to pay, but I don't really expect that. At the same time, I hate the idea because, as I look at the other MMORPG that I payed $10.00 a month for seven years it totaled $840.00 just to play the game. Ouch.

When it boils down to it, Guild Wars has made a name for itself as a free MMO, and turning their back against that by charging would be far too damaging to their image and their PR. it's just my opinion, though. I don't have solid facts to back it up. Since I don't work for them, I cannot honestly say why or why they could not impliment it.

milan · Dec 10, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

On the subject of monthly fees. I'd be out of GW like a shot and I'm sure some lonely gamer somewhere would hold up their GW ch1,2 and 3 boxes in court and say 'It says NO monthly fees'.

If I wanted to pay for my gaming I'd find a primarly non instanced world where the considerable limitations placed on us in GW due to it's design model were not present.

As for the suggestion that there should be a two teir system for montly fees - voluntary fees for mini games etc. The better way to implement this is through add on packs via the online shop. These could be used periodically to give a cash 'boost'.

However it's all moot unless anyone have a copy of the last returns filed by Anet and a copy of the accounts of NcSoft and the pages figures relevant to GW.

lacasner · Dec 10, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

I know, but with this "stay the course" policy they have I just am not sure how long it will last. Nothing of course lasts forever, but with more gameplay features that don't affect the balance and core this game was built on, I am sure it will last much longer.

J snukka · Dec 10, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

I agree with a price being put on any content added to polish up previous chapters, but a monthly fee isn't required for those things to get done. If players want whatever extra stuff you mentioned, we can just pay like a one time price of maybe 10-15 dollars and thats it. I'm fine with paying once for any new content addedt to Proph or Factions. But a monthly fee isn't necessary.

I really hope anet does add quests or housing or minigames in the future.

WasAGuest · Dec 10, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

I don't think a monthly fee is the answer for GW. I think the solution really is that the PvEers (like myself) need to accept that GW is not long lasting role playing game like it has the potential to be.
Focus is constantly on change and balance, and PvE is by nature unbalanced and is where the challenge and fun comes from. Fighting a massively over powered foe with unique abilities and powers is far more fun for PvEers than chasing after a mob monk with player like skills and abilities that have been balanced to be the same as the players... (wow, what a run on).

Most complaints about boredom seemed to show up around the same time as when the AI went Benny Hill and drops turned to crap.

Adding a monthly fee to this game model will not change the model; only add fees (and additional optional content per the OP ideas) to the model.

I would suggest PvEers (like myself) that are unhappy or discontent with GW's PvE game find another online game to play, or simply a game with a richer more open PvE type play... such as the fanboys of Anet have been saying for a year (true fans... sending customers away... lol). I am, for example, happily paying a monthly fee for another online game with a deeper PvE experience and am only playing GW on a rare occasion. I am, however watching and keeping an eye on the state of the game and awaiting some major improvements and "fixes" so that I can continue enjoying a good game.

This is only my opinion and in no way do I claim to speak for any minority or majority.

Loviatar · Dec 10, 2006, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by milan

However it's all moot unless anyone have a copy of the last returns filed by Anet and a copy of the accounts of NcSoft and the pages figures relevant to GW.

NCsoft® Corporation (KSE:036570.KS) today announced third quarter 2006 sales of KRW (Korea Won) 85 billion (US$90.1 million), operating income of KRW 17.5 billion (US$18.7 million) and net profit of KRW 12.8 billion (US$13.7 million), all on a consolidated basis. Compared to the previous quarter, sales decreased 1% while operating income rose 944%. The company reported a turnaround in net profit from the previous quarter, an increase of 16.4% excluding the Q2 Auto Assault® write-off of KRW 11.2 billion.

The results were due to brisk sales of the world’s leading MMORPG franchise Lineage®, Lineage II and City of Heroes®/City of Villains® that beat market expectations and a decrease in operating costs such as labor and marketing.

By region, domestic sales amounted to KRW 53.9 billion (US$57.5 million), up 2% from the previous quarter thanks to the continued popularity of Lineage and Lineage II. North America and Europe recorded sales of KRW 15.8 billion (US$16.9 million) and KRW 6.1 billion (US$6.5 million), respectively. In Japan, steady sales of the Lineage series, buoyed by an increase in the number of users of Lineage II and the Chronicle 5 update in September, led to sales of KRW 9.1 billion (US$9.7 million), up 22% q-q. The percentage breakdown of regional sales shows Korea with 57% of total sales followed by North America with 19%, Europe with 7% and Japan with 11%. Overseas royalties amounted to 6%. Meanwhile, the percentage breakdown of sales by game titles shows Lineage and Lineage II with 36% and 35%, respectively, followed by City of Heroes/City of Villains with 9% and Guild Wars® with 14%.

NCSoft CFO Lee Jae-ho said, “The company’s accumulated earnings up to the third quarter exceeded its initial projection. Therefore, we are revising our 2006 earnings outlook upward to KRW 339 billion (US$361.8 million) in sales from the previous forecast of KRW 330 billion (US$352.2 million). The projection for operating income is upgraded to KRW 39 billion (US$41.6 million) from KRW 20 billion (US$21.3 million). The revision reflects the ongoing success with our game titles and the positive effects we’ve seen from the company’s cost controls.”

On October 27, NCsoft carried out a simultaneous global launch of the third campaign in the Guild Wars franchise, Guild Wars Nightfall™. This week, NCsoft is showcasing for the first time in Korea its hugely anticipated MMORPG project, Aion™. The game is being shown at G-star, Korea’s largest game exhibition. Early public testing for the game is slated to begin within the year. Additionally at G-star, NCsoft is showing off another new project, ATrix™. Testing for that game is slated to begin in the next two months.